BIENVENIDO, Invitado ( Identifícate | Registrase )
Caso de Espionaje: Ferrari - McLaren |
Sep 13 2007, 10:51 PM
Publicado:
#901
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Advanced Member Grupo: Members Mensajes: 551 Desde: 11-March 08 De: Spain Usuario No.: 5.101 |
Casi mejor, porque hay topics sobre este tema en todos los temas.
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Respuestas
Dec 14 2007, 05:46 PM
Publicado:
#902
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Advanced Member Grupo: Members Mensajes: 714 Desde: 11-March 08 De: Spain Usuario No.: 4.348 |
La carta entera de McLaren a la FIA...
The full letter from McLaren to the FIA Thursday, December 13th 2007, 16:26 GMT Mr Max Mosley and Members of the World Motor Sport Council President Federation Internationale de L'Automobile 7 Boulevard de Moulins MC9800 Monaco 05 December 2007 Private & Confidential Dear Mr Mosley and Members of the World Motor Sport Council, We have very recently received a copy of the report by the FIA Technical Department, to the World Motor Sport Council pursuant to its 13th September 2007 decision. In the light of this report and its conclusions we felt that it was appropriate to write directly to you to express our sincere regret in regard to some of the matters that had been brought to light. Whilst with great respect to the authors of the report, we do not agree with all of the conclusions that have been drawn following this most impressively thorough and daunting investigation into the engineering processes of McLaren Racing, we accept the central conclusion that some pieces of Ferrari information may have been disclosed via Nigel Stepney and Mike Coughlan, directly or indirectly to individuals within McLaren other than Pedro de la Rosa and Fernando Alonso. It is a matter of deep regret for us that our understanding of the facts has improved as a result of the FIA inspection rather than our own prior investigations. We apologise unreservedly if our prior ignorance of some of these facts has misled the World Motor Sport Council and we can only assure you all that this was never our intention. We must nonetheless accept that our own investigations into this matter were insufficient, although we would ask you to have regard to the fact that such investigations were conducted during a highly intense racing season and under significant time pressure. As a result, our investigations focused most strongly on satisfying ourselves that no Ferrari confidential information had been used directly or indirectly on the 2007 and 2008 cars. The FIA investigation was extremely exhaustive, comprehensive and we trust that it is apparent, as is acknowledged in the report, that McLaren co-operated fully and speedily with all requests made by the investigating team. We also believe that the investigators found no evidence of concealment or data cleansing as they reviewed the comprehensive materials supplied. To put this investigation into context, the investigating team interviewed 20 key engineers, accessed 22 personal computers belonging to key members of the organisation and retrieved by computer search 1.4 Tera Bytes of data stored on the central computer systems of McLaren Racing (this latter data is equivalent to approximately 75 million sheets of A4 typed information). We would respectfully suggest, however, that despite our embarrassment that pieces of Ferrari information may have penetrated our organisation beyond our previous belief, the inspection has not reached any conclusion that McLaren used Ferrari confidential information on the 2007 or 2008 car (subject to issues as to the deployment quickshift, fast fill or CO2 as a tyre gas for 2008, in respect of which see below). We do, however, accept that the inspection provides some support for the conclusion that is set out in paragraph 8.11 of the WMSC's decision of 13 September 2007. In particular that "a number of McLaren employees... were in unauthorised possession of ... Ferrari technical information" for which we have been most severely punished. However, it does not establish that the information in question was used on the 2007 or 2008 cars. We understand that the World Motor Sport Council does not have time to receive a full hearing in regard to this matter during its meeting on 7th December. However, we are aware that the Council will make a procedural decision to determine how this matter is now addressed and taken forward. In this regard, we can only seek to provide the Council with the briefest understanding of the impact of this matter upon our team and respectfully request that the Council appreciates these facts and determines a process which is proportionate to the seriousness of the case, taking into account the penalties that have already been inflicted upon the team. We respectfully request that the members of the Council consider the significant disruption that has occurred within the team as a consequence of this matter. Whilst McLaren has a strong partnership with Mercedes-Benz, which supplies its engines, it is still an independent team which is responsible for the generation of the majority of its own budget for the design and development of the chassis and the subsequent operation of the cars. Therefore, apart from the morale sapping consequence within the team, its ability to continue its task of generating investment has, as I am sure anyone can imagine, been made virtually impossible. Consequently, the long term damage to the team's previously outstanding record and commercial capability is significantly greater than that potentially envisaged by the fiscal penalty that was previously imposed upon the team. We would respectfully ask that in the light of this and the fact that it is reasonable to assume now that all of the damaging facts have been presented, that it may be appropriate and also incidentally in the interests of Formula One generally, to bring an urgent conclusion to this affair. Toward that end we would like to express our willingness, despite not agreeing with the findings, to enter into discussion with the FIA Technical Department as to a moratorium of an appropriate length in respect of the use of quickshift, fast fill or CO2 as a tyre gas. We trust that the seriousness with which we regard this matter is apparent from this letter and that it gives you confidence that we will do everything in our power to avoid any repetition of these events. We have reflected on these matters carefully and critically and in particular on the comments made by the FIA President, Max Mosley, to the effect that had we contacted Jean Todt as soon as we were aware of the "whistleblowing" information coming from Stepney these matters could all have been avoided. Moving forward, we would like to reassure the Council that we have put in place procedures to prevent further recurrences of such conduct and would like to offer to the FIA if this of interest to open a dialogue whereby McLaren would make every effort to try and improve its relationship with the FIA. We apologise wholeheartedly once more that it has taken the intervention of the FIA and a time consuming process to expose all of the facts emanating from this matter, but we hope that when the Council members have had time to consider the circumstances surrounding this case and the pressures that have been placed upon McLaren during our investigations, that our lapses in this respect are at least partially excusable. We remain at your convenience if we can further assist your deliberations in respect of this matter. Yours sincerely, Martin Whitmarsh Chief Operating Officer, McLaren Group |
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Mensajes en este tema
Mike Watt Caso de Espionaje: Ferrari - McLaren Sep 13 2007, 10:51 PM
Cap Sinceramente, no creo que un amigo personal de Fer... Sep 23 2007, 02:03 AM
Gordongekkko . Sep 23 2007, 02:39 AM
el latigo Para echar unas risas. http://www.elpais.com/graf... Sep 25 2007, 04:26 PM
AC99 http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/Max/Mosley... Sep 25 2007, 08:00 PM
lemec si por el hubiera sido ademas habrian flajelado a ... Sep 25 2007, 11:17 PM
Brian Syrup @Accitano Hoy (por domingo pasado)he leído e... Sep 26 2007, 07:04 PM
KIT Bueno he leido al "amigo de Alonsín... Sep 26 2007, 08:47 PM
850 coupé Ya empieza a estar del todo claro. Y es lo que par... Sep 27 2007, 12:59 AM
Cap Ahh, punto redondo, ¿porque? ¿Lo ha conf... Sep 27 2007, 02:10 AM
csalvador Quien ha espiado? Mclaren o Alonso? Si no quieres ... Sep 27 2007, 02:32 AM
el latigo No doy credito, que no le han perjudicado ¿... Sep 27 2007, 02:46 AM
Mefe1 Según ha comentado Joaquín Verdagay , lo... Sep 27 2007, 04:59 AM
KIT 850 COUPÉ... ESTOY CONTIGO!!! Si volvemos a ... Sep 27 2007, 08:38 AM
KIT Las encontré!!! http://www.sport.es/default.... Sep 27 2007, 08:50 AM
lemec Te refieres, KIT, a que AP deja claro lo que vale ... Sep 27 2007, 03:56 PM
MIKE WATT. ¿Alain Prost? ¿Qué sabrá ese?S... Sep 27 2007, 04:34 PM
ELEDUAR Ya decía yo que hacía muchos mensajes qu... Sep 27 2007, 05:22 PM
MIKE WATT. ¿Por qué voy a dejar de leerlo si me div... Sep 27 2007, 07:46 PM
gascon habeis visto el periodico os dejo el enlace http:... Sep 27 2007, 09:43 PM
lemec ¿Un mail anonimo? Ya ... y Ron Dennis una ca... Sep 27 2007, 11:06 PM
barrete Hombre lo de las fotocopias no se lo cree nadie...... Sep 27 2007, 11:19 PM
accitano Creo, según me ha parecido leer, que aunque s... Sep 27 2007, 11:28 PM
ELEDUAR También soltó hace poco Mosley que ya se... Sep 27 2007, 11:32 PM
BITTER MIKE WATT, hay sufrimientos que se pueden evitar..... Sep 27 2007, 11:37 PM
pableras Hola!!! Estaba buscando info sobre un programa qu... Oct 1 2007, 11:39 AM
AC99 Recupero el tema sólo paa comentar que tras l... Oct 2 2007, 03:32 PM
` Montezemolo: 'Si Hamilton gana el Mundial ser... Oct 2 2007, 04:01 PM
B.ROSAN quote:Recupero el tema sólo paa comentar que ... Oct 2 2007, 05:38 PM
AC99 Sí, cuestión aparte es si Pedro se est... Oct 2 2007, 10:23 PM
Kalbinsky http://www.sport.es/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=44... Oct 3 2007, 01:01 PM
MarinaRM Cuando se dijo en T5 que Alonso está completa... Oct 7 2007, 09:53 PM
salome Por el caso del espionaje - 07-10-2007 ''Ferrari d... Oct 8 2007, 03:35 AM
ExxonValdez Es la bomba... También aparece aquí la m... Oct 8 2007, 11:02 PM
juan lobo Según la Gazzetta dello Sport Alonso ha decla... Oct 9 2007, 08:16 PM
st. gregori http://www.elperiodico.com/default.asp?idpublicaci... Oct 9 2007, 08:20 PM
Kalbinsky http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/Alonso/dec... Oct 9 2007, 08:22 PM
AC99 Me imagino que acude como testigo, por lo que no p... Oct 9 2007, 09:20 PM
Tess http://www.milenio.com/index.php/2007/10/10/132668... Oct 11 2007, 06:00 PM
st. gregori Lo que tendrian que hacer es citar a Hamilton para... Oct 11 2007, 07:31 PM
AC99 No, ST. GREGORI, porque se cancelaría el GP p... Oct 12 2007, 02:33 AM
st. gregori Interesante entrevista a Max Mosley (sobretodo las... Oct 23 2007, 10:07 PM
MIKE WATT. ¿A nadie le parece esta respuesta incre... Oct 23 2007, 11:01 PM
gladiatorr HOstia, hay una cosa en la que Hamilton supera con... Oct 24 2007, 01:47 AM
` Formula 1.- Montezemolo (Ferrari) afirma que el ca... Oct 25 2007, 03:26 AM
J0S3M4 AQUI ESTA LAS PRUEBAS Oct 26 2007, 02:40 AM
monza2001 http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63702[... Oct 30 2007, 10:33 PM
` Edited by - ` on 31/10/2007 0:38:48 Oct 31 2007, 05:35 AM
PEDRO_2008 http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63712[... Oct 31 2007, 07:01 PM
MIKE WATT. A ver si es verdad y termina ya de una vez este as... Dec 7 2007, 05:52 PM
` McLaren must wait for 2008 car clearance By Jonat... Dec 7 2007, 08:15 PM
MIKE WATT. Si antes comenta Martin Whitmarsh lo de que espera... Dec 7 2007, 08:28 PM
` FIA to sue British newspaper (updated) 07/12/2007... Dec 8 2007, 06:26 AM
MIKE WATT. Vaya, vaya, vaya. As a result of the investigatio... Dec 13 2007, 11:22 PM
` CASO CERRADO FIA moves to close spying affair B... Dec 14 2007, 01:18 AM
pca Esto me parece muy importante: we accept the cent... Dec 14 2007, 01:24 AM
accitano Y que me decís a lo que publica autosport.com... Dec 14 2007, 01:31 AM
MIKE WATT. Caso cerrado al fin! Me da la sensación que ... Dec 14 2007, 01:41 AM
pca deployment quickshift, fast fill or CO2 as a tyre ... Dec 14 2007, 01:48 AM
pca No los echan del mundial porque no quieren... ... Dec 14 2007, 02:38 AM
Raquel quote:No los echan del mundial porque no quieren..... Dec 14 2007, 03:13 AM
Space Estos tios no son tontos. Al final todos contentos... Dec 14 2007, 03:56 AM
Omega FIA: McLaren planned to use Ferrari data By Jonat... Dec 14 2007, 03:35 PM
ExxonValdez McLaren tendrá que desarrollar en sólo t... Dec 14 2007, 04:00 PM
rosadof1 LO ÚLTIMO (F1live): La FIA da por cerrada la... Dec 14 2007, 04:33 PM
ocko No son arrastraos estos. Que por reconocer ya no h... Dec 14 2007, 05:53 PM
ExxonValdez Este tópic de Atlas no tiene desperdicio. Apa... Dec 14 2007, 08:38 PM
ExxonValdez http://forum.planet-f1.com/index.php?t=msg...mp;st... Dec 15 2007, 07:40 PM
ocko Ron Dennis' statement at the first FIA's hearing, ... Dec 15 2007, 07:51 PM
Omega "Solo Coughlan, De la Rosa y Fernando conoc... Dec 15 2007, 08:04 PM
ExxonValdez Lo curioso es que el 25 de noviembre Hamilton reco... Dec 15 2007, 08:51 PM
Tess (Star-Apellos) La MaFIA juró y perjuró que quitar... Dec 15 2007, 09:03 PM
Omega Recuerdo que Carlos Gracia en su momento coment... Dec 15 2007, 09:13 PM
ExxonValdez Traducción del Punto 42 del informe de la FIA... Dec 15 2007, 09:49 PM
MIKE WATT. Finito.O al menos en la vertiente estrictamente de... Dec 19 2007, 06:52 PM
` Ferrari sigue dando caña Ferrari still fumi... Dec 20 2007, 06:28 PM
pca Juas, ¡qué buena la última frase! Dec 20 2007, 06:50 PM
pca They went corrupting their own personnel to make t... Dec 20 2007, 06:55 PM
` EL CONSEJERO DE FERRARI SE REFIRIÓ AL SUPUEST... Dec 20 2007, 07:58 PM
pca Lo curioso de todo esto del espionaje es que nos l... Dec 20 2007, 08:06 PM
César PCA, en el mundo de la Formula 1 sólo nos ent... Dec 20 2007, 08:21 PM
Raquel Entre cuatro (o a saber cuántos) manipulan to... Dec 20 2007, 08:44 PM
pca Sabias palabras César. Desconocía adem... Dec 20 2007, 08:59 PM
MIKE WATT. "The English never miss a chance to demonstra... Dec 21 2007, 05:29 PM
accitano Los documentos de la FIA. 04/07/2007 http://www.f... Sep 13 2007, 10:49 PM
Ferrari F399 McLaren y Ferrari "firman la paz" por el... Jul 11 2008, 06:18 PM
ScuVi Fórmula 1 | Actualidad Ferrari y McLaren ponen f... Jul 12 2008, 08:43 AM
ScuVi Que curioso, el penúltimo post también es mio. ... Mar 9 2009, 01:24 PM
lemec pues menos mal que la F1 esta haciendo esfuerzos p... Mar 9 2009, 01:30 PM
tenista Las pesadillas de Pedro de la Rosa o cuando McLare... Mar 19 2020, 09:01 AM
tenista Para todos los nuevos del Foro, es un muy buen tem... Mar 19 2020, 09:02 AM
tenista Aquellos artículos que no podáis abrir, metiendo... Mar 19 2020, 09:04 AM
E.Fittipaldi Bueno, pasado el tiempo empieza a filtrarse algun ... Mar 19 2020, 08:01 PM
Cap Sinceramente, no creo que un amigo personal de Fer... Sep 23 2007, 02:03 AM
Gordongekkko . Sep 23 2007, 02:39 AM
el latigo Para echar unas risas. http://www.elpais.com/graf... Sep 25 2007, 04:26 PM
AC99 http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/Max/Mosley... Sep 25 2007, 08:00 PM
lemec si por el hubiera sido ademas habrian flajelado a ... Sep 25 2007, 11:17 PM
Brian Syrup @Accitano Hoy (por domingo pasado)he leído e... Sep 26 2007, 07:04 PM
KIT Bueno he leido al "amigo de Alonsín... Sep 26 2007, 08:47 PM
850 coupé Ya empieza a estar del todo claro. Y es lo que par... Sep 27 2007, 12:59 AM
Cap Ahh, punto redondo, ¿porque? ¿Lo ha conf... Sep 27 2007, 02:10 AM
csalvador Quien ha espiado? Mclaren o Alonso? Si no quieres ... Sep 27 2007, 02:32 AM
el latigo No doy credito, que no le han perjudicado ¿... Sep 27 2007, 02:46 AM
Mefe1 Según ha comentado Joaquín Verdagay , lo... Sep 27 2007, 04:59 AM
KIT 850 COUPÉ... ESTOY CONTIGO!!! Si volvemos a ... Sep 27 2007, 08:38 AM
KIT Las encontré!!! http://www.sport.es/default.... Sep 27 2007, 08:50 AM
lemec Te refieres, KIT, a que AP deja claro lo que vale ... Sep 27 2007, 03:56 PM
MIKE WATT. ¿Alain Prost? ¿Qué sabrá ese?S... Sep 27 2007, 04:34 PM
ELEDUAR Ya decía yo que hacía muchos mensajes qu... Sep 27 2007, 05:22 PM
MIKE WATT. ¿Por qué voy a dejar de leerlo si me div... Sep 27 2007, 07:46 PM
gascon habeis visto el periodico os dejo el enlace http:... Sep 27 2007, 09:43 PM
lemec ¿Un mail anonimo? Ya ... y Ron Dennis una ca... Sep 27 2007, 11:06 PM
barrete Hombre lo de las fotocopias no se lo cree nadie...... Sep 27 2007, 11:19 PM
accitano Creo, según me ha parecido leer, que aunque s... Sep 27 2007, 11:28 PM
ELEDUAR También soltó hace poco Mosley que ya se... Sep 27 2007, 11:32 PM
BITTER MIKE WATT, hay sufrimientos que se pueden evitar..... Sep 27 2007, 11:37 PM
pableras Hola!!! Estaba buscando info sobre un programa qu... Oct 1 2007, 11:39 AM
AC99 Recupero el tema sólo paa comentar que tras l... Oct 2 2007, 03:32 PM
` Montezemolo: 'Si Hamilton gana el Mundial ser... Oct 2 2007, 04:01 PM
B.ROSAN quote:Recupero el tema sólo paa comentar que ... Oct 2 2007, 05:38 PM
AC99 Sí, cuestión aparte es si Pedro se est... Oct 2 2007, 10:23 PM
Kalbinsky http://www.sport.es/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=44... Oct 3 2007, 01:01 PM
MarinaRM Cuando se dijo en T5 que Alonso está completa... Oct 7 2007, 09:53 PM
salome Por el caso del espionaje - 07-10-2007 ''Ferrari d... Oct 8 2007, 03:35 AM
ExxonValdez Es la bomba... También aparece aquí la m... Oct 8 2007, 11:02 PM
juan lobo Según la Gazzetta dello Sport Alonso ha decla... Oct 9 2007, 08:16 PM
st. gregori http://www.elperiodico.com/default.asp?idpublicaci... Oct 9 2007, 08:20 PM
Kalbinsky http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/Alonso/dec... Oct 9 2007, 08:22 PM
AC99 Me imagino que acude como testigo, por lo que no p... Oct 9 2007, 09:20 PM
Tess http://www.milenio.com/index.php/2007/10/10/132668... Oct 11 2007, 06:00 PM
st. gregori Lo que tendrian que hacer es citar a Hamilton para... Oct 11 2007, 07:31 PM
AC99 No, ST. GREGORI, porque se cancelaría el GP p... Oct 12 2007, 02:33 AM
st. gregori Interesante entrevista a Max Mosley (sobretodo las... Oct 23 2007, 10:07 PM
MIKE WATT. ¿A nadie le parece esta respuesta incre... Oct 23 2007, 11:01 PM
gladiatorr HOstia, hay una cosa en la que Hamilton supera con... Oct 24 2007, 01:47 AM
` Formula 1.- Montezemolo (Ferrari) afirma que el ca... Oct 25 2007, 03:26 AM
J0S3M4 AQUI ESTA LAS PRUEBAS Oct 26 2007, 02:40 AM
monza2001 http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63702[... Oct 30 2007, 10:33 PM
` Edited by - ` on 31/10/2007 0:38:48 Oct 31 2007, 05:35 AM
PEDRO_2008 http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63712[... Oct 31 2007, 07:01 PM
MIKE WATT. A ver si es verdad y termina ya de una vez este as... Dec 7 2007, 05:52 PM
` McLaren must wait for 2008 car clearance By Jonat... Dec 7 2007, 08:15 PM
MIKE WATT. Si antes comenta Martin Whitmarsh lo de que espera... Dec 7 2007, 08:28 PM
` FIA to sue British newspaper (updated) 07/12/2007... Dec 8 2007, 06:26 AM
MIKE WATT. Vaya, vaya, vaya. As a result of the investigatio... Dec 13 2007, 11:22 PM
` CASO CERRADO FIA moves to close spying affair B... Dec 14 2007, 01:18 AM
pca Esto me parece muy importante: we accept the cent... Dec 14 2007, 01:24 AM
accitano Y que me decís a lo que publica autosport.com... Dec 14 2007, 01:31 AM
MIKE WATT. Caso cerrado al fin! Me da la sensación que ... Dec 14 2007, 01:41 AM
pca deployment quickshift, fast fill or CO2 as a tyre ... Dec 14 2007, 01:48 AM
pca No los echan del mundial porque no quieren... ... Dec 14 2007, 02:38 AM
Raquel quote:No los echan del mundial porque no quieren..... Dec 14 2007, 03:13 AM
Space Estos tios no son tontos. Al final todos contentos... Dec 14 2007, 03:56 AM
Omega FIA: McLaren planned to use Ferrari data By Jonat... Dec 14 2007, 03:35 PM
ExxonValdez McLaren tendrá que desarrollar en sólo t... Dec 14 2007, 04:00 PM
rosadof1 LO ÚLTIMO (F1live): La FIA da por cerrada la... Dec 14 2007, 04:33 PM
ocko No son arrastraos estos. Que por reconocer ya no h... Dec 14 2007, 05:53 PM
ExxonValdez Este tópic de Atlas no tiene desperdicio. Apa... Dec 14 2007, 08:38 PM
ExxonValdez http://forum.planet-f1.com/index.php?t=msg...mp;st... Dec 15 2007, 07:40 PM
ocko Ron Dennis' statement at the first FIA's hearing, ... Dec 15 2007, 07:51 PM
Omega "Solo Coughlan, De la Rosa y Fernando conoc... Dec 15 2007, 08:04 PM
ExxonValdez Lo curioso es que el 25 de noviembre Hamilton reco... Dec 15 2007, 08:51 PM
Tess (Star-Apellos) La MaFIA juró y perjuró que quitar... Dec 15 2007, 09:03 PM
Omega Recuerdo que Carlos Gracia en su momento coment... Dec 15 2007, 09:13 PM
ExxonValdez Traducción del Punto 42 del informe de la FIA... Dec 15 2007, 09:49 PM
MIKE WATT. Finito.O al menos en la vertiente estrictamente de... Dec 19 2007, 06:52 PM
` Ferrari sigue dando caña Ferrari still fumi... Dec 20 2007, 06:28 PM
pca Juas, ¡qué buena la última frase! Dec 20 2007, 06:50 PM
pca They went corrupting their own personnel to make t... Dec 20 2007, 06:55 PM
` EL CONSEJERO DE FERRARI SE REFIRIÓ AL SUPUEST... Dec 20 2007, 07:58 PM
pca Lo curioso de todo esto del espionaje es que nos l... Dec 20 2007, 08:06 PM
César PCA, en el mundo de la Formula 1 sólo nos ent... Dec 20 2007, 08:21 PM
Raquel Entre cuatro (o a saber cuántos) manipulan to... Dec 20 2007, 08:44 PM
pca Sabias palabras César. Desconocía adem... Dec 20 2007, 08:59 PM
MIKE WATT. "The English never miss a chance to demonstra... Dec 21 2007, 05:29 PM
accitano Los documentos de la FIA. 04/07/2007 http://www.f... Sep 13 2007, 10:49 PM
Ferrari F399 McLaren y Ferrari "firman la paz" por el... Jul 11 2008, 06:18 PM
ScuVi Fórmula 1 | Actualidad Ferrari y McLaren ponen f... Jul 12 2008, 08:43 AM
ScuVi Que curioso, el penúltimo post también es mio. ... Mar 9 2009, 01:24 PM
lemec pues menos mal que la F1 esta haciendo esfuerzos p... Mar 9 2009, 01:30 PM
tenista Las pesadillas de Pedro de la Rosa o cuando McLare... Mar 19 2020, 09:01 AM
tenista Para todos los nuevos del Foro, es un muy buen tem... Mar 19 2020, 09:02 AM
tenista Aquellos artículos que no podáis abrir, metiendo... Mar 19 2020, 09:04 AM
E.Fittipaldi Bueno, pasado el tiempo empieza a filtrarse algun ... Mar 19 2020, 08:01 PM
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