Caso de Espionaje: Ferrari - McLaren Opciones

[Raquel]

quote:

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No los echan del mundial porque no quieren... ¿no?

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NO. Porque "no quieren", no. Porque no interesa.

Insisto: la legalidad honesta hubiera debido empezar por no dejar correr 2 coches sobre los que ya recaía tamaño escándalo. Una multa económica era apaciguar voces en el momento que interesó. "Grande" la multa como "grande" la capacidad del equipo "castigado". Castigado según sus conveniencias, claro...

¡Viva el espectáculo!

[Space]

Estos tios no son tontos. Al final todos contentos, el tema del espionaje zanjado, a Mclaren le dejan en paz previa disculpa publica y a otra cosa mariposa.
'Business is Business' decian no??

[Omega]

FIA: McLaren planned to use Ferrari data

By Jonathan NobleThursday, December 13th 2007, 18:50 GMT

McLaren were poised to use systems on their 2008 car that had been inspired by secret Ferrari information given to them by Nigel Stepney, the FIA's technical report on the matter reveals.
Having conducted a detailed examination of the design of McLaren's 2008 car, to see if any Ferrari intellectual property had been used, the FIA report published on Thursday claims that there was evidence of such activity.
Although what the specific parts and systems are have not been revealed, to keep McLaren's own technical secrets confidential, the report is adamant that some elements of the MP4-23 design was scheduled to include technology inspired by confidential Ferrari information.
The report states: "The [redacted - confidential] system appears to have been re-investigated and developed by McLaren as a result of the receipt of confidential Ferrari information.
"Despite senior McLaren management imposing a hiatus on development at the time the (Mike) Coughlan activities were revealed, McLaren now intend to use [redcated - confidential] on the 2008 car."
It added: "The [redacted - confidential] mechanism which McLaren has developed since the 3 May 2007 Coughlan meeting is intended to be used on the 2008 car and appears to have been initiated by the receipt of confidential Ferrari information."
Detailed examination of the report shows that one area where McLaren had appeared to utilise the Ferrari information was in the creation of a new brake balance system.
The report states: "It appears on the basis of these documents that the genesis of the idea to incorporate a [redacted - confidential] on the McLaren 2008 car emanated from the emails exchanged on 12 April 2007 concerning Ferrari's [redacted – confidential] system and the meeting called on 3 May 2007 by Coughlan. We have not been presented with a convincing explanation to displace the impression given by the documents."
The report also states that McLaren were ready to consider the use of CO2 gas in their tyres, as Ferrari do. It is believed 'more likely than not' that the idea came to the team from information given by Nigel Stepney.
The report states: "We believe the general investigation by McLaren of the use of [redcated – confidential] established further dissemination of confident Ferrari information to engineers within McLaren which has influenced their work on the 2007 and 2008 cars."
The FIA document also reveals that engineers within the team were aware of a Ferrari 'mole' passing information to them.
One email exchange between engineers on April 13, 2007 discussing steering angles mentioned an exact figure for the Ferrari wheelbase. A response from a senior McLaren engineer was: "Is the Ferrari wheelbase an accurate figure? Did it come from photos or our mole?"
The response was: "You will find it's to the nearest 'mm'."
The report states: "On a natural reading of this exchange and taking into account the suggested explanations for it, we have concluded that both [Senior McLaren Engineer] and [Senior McLaren Engineer] were aware that confidential Ferrari information was being leaked through a mole and were prepared to use that information for McLaren's benefit in the design of the 2007 and 2008 cars."
The report reveals that McLaren indeed decided to follow Ferrari's example and increase the wheelbase of their car for 2008, although it could not prove whether this was because of the secret Ferrari information or because of information that was readily available and in the public domain.
McLaren have apologised to the FIA for not being aware of just how far the Ferrari information obtained by the team had spread within their organisation, and the report reveals that even a 'Senior McLaren management figure' was aware of what was going on.
It states the unidentified senior McLaren management figure advised the team to abandon work on a secret technical development because of the spy case surrounding the team.
The report states that on August 8, a senior McLaren engineer communicated a decision reached by a senior McLaren management figure to junior staff members that they were to abandon their efforts on the development
"I would not change the [redacted – confidential] direction until we have to, i.e., when we eventually run the [redacted – confidential]. We will obviously ask for this again for Turkey but I'm not hopeful that we will run this until the outstanding FIA agro [sic] is resolved."
McLaren have vowed to cease development work on the parts that could have been inspired by Ferrari knowledge, and the FIA stated on Thursday night that it was now willing to bring the matter to a close.

[ExxonValdez]

McLaren tendrá que desarrollar en sólo tres meses un nuevo coche totalmente diferente después de haber admitido que usó los datos de Ferrari, y que no eran De la Rosa y Alonso los únicos que conocían esos datos...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/motorsport.html?in_article_id=502060&in_page_id=1954 [URL-NOMBRE]Ron Dennis tendrá que salvar su empleo... Daily Mail

[rosadof1]

LO ÚLTIMO (F1live):

La FIA da por cerrada la investigación a McLaren


El escándalo de espionaje llega a su fin
14/12/07 10:20


McLaren ya tiene luz verde para la temporada 2008:

En la tarde de ayer el equipo McLaren Mercedes se disculpaba públicamente ante la FIA y el Consejo Mundial del Motor por el escándalo de espionaje industrial en el que se ha visto involucrado este año.

Horas después, la FIA respondía en un tono conciliador dando por cerrado el caso de espionaje y anunciando que McLaren podrá comenzar la temporada 2008 sin ningún tipo de limitaciones.

Buenas noticias pues para la Fórmula Uno poco antes de que llegue la Navidad, ya que con esta decisión de la FIA da por cerrado el caso de espionaje y cancela la vista prevista para el próximo 14 de febrero.
La FIA facilitaba el siguiente comunicado:

"A la luz de las disculpas de McLaren, el presidente ha solicitado a los miembros del Consejo Mundial la cancelación de la reunión prevista para el 14 de febrero y, en interés del deporte, dar el asunto por cerrado”.

L.S.
Fuente FIA


Quizá todo este asunto se cierre en falso.

Saludos

Edited by - rosadof1 on 14/12/2007 10:35:19

[ExxonValdez]

La carta entera de McLaren a la FIA...

The full letter from McLaren to the FIA

Thursday, December 13th 2007, 16:26 GMT


Mr Max Mosley and Members of the World Motor Sport Council
President
Federation Internationale de L'Automobile
7 Boulevard de Moulins
MC9800
Monaco

05 December 2007

Private & Confidential

Dear Mr Mosley and Members of the World Motor Sport Council,

We have very recently received a copy of the report by the FIA Technical Department, to the World Motor Sport Council pursuant to its 13th September 2007 decision. In the light of this report and its conclusions we felt that it was appropriate to write directly to you to express our sincere regret in regard to some of the matters that had been brought to light.

Whilst with great respect to the authors of the report, we do not agree with all of the conclusions that have been drawn following this most impressively thorough and daunting investigation into the engineering processes of McLaren Racing, we accept the central conclusion that some pieces of Ferrari information may have been disclosed via Nigel Stepney and Mike Coughlan, directly or indirectly to individuals within McLaren other than Pedro de la Rosa and Fernando Alonso.

It is a matter of deep regret for us that our understanding of the facts has improved as a result of the FIA inspection rather than our own prior investigations. We apologise unreservedly if our prior ignorance of some of these facts has misled the World Motor Sport Council and we can only assure you all that this was never our intention.

We must nonetheless accept that our own investigations into this matter were insufficient, although we would ask you to have regard to the fact that such investigations were conducted during a highly intense racing season and under significant time pressure. As a result, our investigations focused most strongly on satisfying ourselves that no Ferrari confidential information had been used directly or indirectly on the 2007 and 2008 cars.

The FIA investigation was extremely exhaustive, comprehensive and we trust that it is apparent, as is acknowledged in the report, that McLaren co-operated fully and speedily with all requests made by the investigating team. We also believe that the investigators found no evidence of concealment or data cleansing as they reviewed the comprehensive materials supplied.

To put this investigation into context, the investigating team interviewed 20 key engineers, accessed 22 personal computers belonging to key members of the organisation and retrieved by computer search 1.4 Tera Bytes of data stored on the central computer systems of McLaren Racing (this latter data is equivalent to approximately 75 million sheets of A4 typed information).

We would respectfully suggest, however, that despite our embarrassment that pieces of Ferrari information may have penetrated our organisation beyond our previous belief, the inspection has not reached any conclusion that McLaren used Ferrari confidential information on the 2007 or 2008 car (subject to issues as to the deployment quickshift, fast fill or CO2 as a tyre gas for 2008, in respect of which see below).

We do, however, accept that the inspection provides some support for the conclusion that is set out in paragraph 8.11 of the WMSC's decision of 13 September 2007. In particular that "a number of McLaren employees... were in unauthorised possession of ... Ferrari technical information" for which we have been most severely punished. However, it does not establish that the information in question was used on the 2007 or 2008 cars.

We understand that the World Motor Sport Council does not have time to receive a full hearing in regard to this matter during its meeting on 7th December. However, we are aware that the Council will make a procedural decision to determine how this matter is now addressed and taken forward.

In this regard, we can only seek to provide the Council with the briefest understanding of the impact of this matter upon our team and respectfully request that the Council appreciates these facts and determines a process which is proportionate to the seriousness of the case, taking into account the penalties that have already been inflicted upon the team.

We respectfully request that the members of the Council consider the significant disruption that has occurred within the team as a consequence of this matter. Whilst McLaren has a strong partnership with Mercedes-Benz, which supplies its engines, it is still an independent team which is responsible for the generation of the majority of its own budget for the design and development of the chassis and the subsequent operation of the cars.

Therefore, apart from the morale sapping consequence within the team, its ability to continue its task of generating investment has, as I am sure anyone can imagine, been made virtually impossible.

Consequently, the long term damage to the team's previously outstanding record and commercial capability is significantly greater than that potentially envisaged by the fiscal penalty that was previously imposed upon the team.

We would respectfully ask that in the light of this and the fact that it is reasonable to assume now that all of the damaging facts have been presented, that it may be appropriate and also incidentally in the interests of Formula One generally, to bring an urgent conclusion to this affair.

Toward that end we would like to express our willingness, despite not agreeing with the findings, to enter into discussion with the FIA Technical Department as to a moratorium of an appropriate length in respect of the use of quickshift, fast fill or CO2 as a tyre gas.

We trust that the seriousness with which we regard this matter is apparent from this letter and that it gives you confidence that we will do everything in our power to avoid any repetition of these events. We have reflected on these matters carefully and critically and in particular on the comments made by the FIA President, Max Mosley, to the effect that had we contacted Jean Todt as soon as we were aware of the "whistleblowing" information coming from Stepney these matters could all have been avoided.

Moving forward, we would like to reassure the Council that we have put in place procedures to prevent further recurrences of such conduct and would like to offer to the FIA if this of interest to open a dialogue whereby McLaren would make every effort to try and improve its relationship with the FIA.

We apologise wholeheartedly once more that it has taken the intervention of the FIA and a time consuming process to expose all of the facts emanating from this matter, but we hope that when the Council members have had time to consider the circumstances surrounding this case and the pressures that have been placed upon McLaren during our investigations, that our lapses in this respect are at least partially excusable.

We remain at your convenience if we can further assist your deliberations in respect of this matter.

Yours sincerely,

Martin Whitmarsh
Chief Operating Officer, McLaren Group

[ocko]

No son arrastraos estos. Que por reconocer ya no hay castigo?

Metal Up your Ass !!!!!

[ExxonValdez]

Este tópic de Atlas no tiene desperdicio. Aparece el informe completo de la FIA sobre McLaren (aunque con partes y nombres censurados)

Y... Hamilton también estaba en el ajo!!!!!

Hay que leer el punto 42 del informe...

http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?threadid=98528[URL-NOMBRE]Tópic sobre McLaren (en inglés)

[ExxonValdez]

http://forum.planet-f1.com/index.php?t=msg...mp;start=0&

[ocko]

Ron Dennis' statement at the first FIA's hearing, stating that only Coughlan, De la Rosa and Alonso knew of the Stepney's info, was a complete falsehood at the time.

¿Quien es el Villano?

A ver si sale otra vez Viladelprat diciendo que Dennis es la persona mas honesta que ha conocido, manda huevos.


Metal Up your Ass !!!!!

[Omega]

"Solo Coughlan, De la Rosa y Fernando conocían la información que provenía de Stepney"

!Menudo sinvergüenza¡

[ExxonValdez]

Lo curioso es que el 25 de noviembre Hamilton reconoció ahora que "había olvidado" mencionar ante el WMSC que él también estaba al tanto de los emails...

[Tess (Star-Apell...]

La MaFIA juró y perjuró que quitaría la superlicencia a los que no presentaran la documentación que tenían.

Y yo me pregunto; Fernando y Pedro no podrían inpugnar a la Fia para que cumplan sus propias reglas????

[Omega]

Recuerdo que Carlos Gracia en su momento comentó que Hamilton había corrido un riesgo alto de retirarle la superlicencia el dia del Jucio, sin embargo, a última hora de la tarde entregó unos "correos", lo cual le salvó de quedarse sin ella (igual que la defensa de Ecclestone, claro). Seguramante estos mails no contendrían información importante ni comprometedora para él, lo "gordo" se le "olvidó".

Sin embargo, en el momento que fue requerido, dijo que no tenía internet...Si pudo recuperar unos determinados correos para entregarlos el 14 de Septiembre, ¿porque no el resto? ¿Los pasó por alto? ¿Se libra por haber "colaborado" en su momento, aunque no aportase la totalidad?

[ExxonValdez]

Traducción del Punto 42 del informe de la FIA:

42. Durante la entrevista, [Senior McLaren Engineer---Alto Ingeniero de McLaren] manifestó que no podía recordar a [McLaren Driver---Piloto de McLaren---(PDLR)] transmitiéndole la información a la que [Otro Alto Ingenieron de McLaren] se había referido en el email anterior (punto 41). [McLaren Driver (¿PDLR?) (¿Fernando Alonso?)], sin embargo, confirmó que él verdaderamente le había transmitido al [Alto Ingeniero de McLaren) la información en cuestión. [McLaren Driver (¿PDLR?) (¿FA?)] también confirmó que la información había llegado a [McLaren Driver ¿PDLR?] desde Stepney a través de Coughlan. [McLaren Driver (LEWIS HAMILTON)] reconoció que esta comunicación a un ingeniero de McLaren de información confidencial de Ferrari era contraria a su anterior declaración ante el Consejo Mundial de Deportes de Motor (WMSC). Dijo:

"Sí, Me olvidé completamente, para ser honesto, lo olvidé"

42. In Interview [Senior McLaren Engineer] claime that he could not remember [McLaren Driver] telling him the information that [Senior McLaren Engineer] had referred to in the email above. [McLaren Driver], however, confirmed that he had indeed told [Senior McLaren Engineer] the information in question. [McLaren Driver] also confirmed that that information had come to [McLaren Driver] from Stepney via Coughlan. [McLaren Driver] recognised that this communication to a McLaren Engineer of confidential Ferrari information was contrary to his earlier statement to the WMSC. He said:

"Yeah, I just completely forgot to be honest, I completely forgot".

Dado que, tanto Alonso como De la Rosa declararon en su momento, y no olvidaron declarar nada, los únicos que quedan para cambiar su testimonio son Gary Paffett y Lewis Hamilton.

Pero Gary Paffett no declaró ante el WMSC... Sólo declararon Lewis y Pedro...

[MIKE WATT.]

Finito.O al menos en la vertiente estrictamente deportiva.Porque el resultado de los tribunales supongo que será cuestión de años.

FIA cancels McLaren hearing to end spy saga

By Jonathan Noble

The FIA has officially brought an end to the McLaren spy scandal that has overshadowed Formula One this year by cancelling next February's hearing into the Woking-based team's 2008 car design.

In the wake of the apology from McLaren earlier this month about them not realising how far Ferrari information had spread inside their team, plus an offer of freezing development of parts that could have been inspired by Ferrari technical knowledge, FIA president Max Mosley asked for the future hearing to be cancelled.

That February 14 gathering of the World Motor Sport Council was due to discuss whether or not Ferrari intellectual property had inspired parts on McLaren's 2008 car - as was suggested in an FIA technical report. If it was proven that devices on the car had come from Ferrari, then McLaren risked facing further sanctions heading into the 2008 campaign.

A statement on the FIA website on Tuesday stated, however, that that hearing was now cancelled - meaning McLaren were now free to prepare for 2008 without the threat of punishment from the governing body.

The statement said: "Further to the proposal of the FIA President, the World Motor Sport Council has agreed to cancel the hearing scheduled for February 14, 2008."

Although the spy scandal has now finished in sporting terms, Ferrari made it clear last week that they would still pursue ongoing court cases surrounding the matter in both Italy and England.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64430[URL-NOMBRE]Link



Edited by - MIKE WATT. on 19/12/2007 12:55:21 [/i]

[`]

Ferrari sigue dando caña

Ferrari still fuming over spy case

By Jonathan Noble and Michele Lostia Thursday, December 20th 2007, 11:21 GMT

Ferrari's senior management has made it clear that it remains far from happy about McLaren's handling of the spy affair - and especially their continued insistence they had done nothing wrong until a recent public letter of apology.

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo and company CEO Jean Todt both hit out at McLaren during a meeting with the Italian press, stating they were furious at the way their Woking-based rivals approached the FIA hearings into the spying affair.

Quoted by Corriere dello Sport, Todt said: "At the hearing McLaren came with 200 signatures of managers saying they never had access to the information.

"Then, three months later, when the FIA did its verifications, it was demonstrated that was completely false. They went corrupting their own personnel to make them sign false documentation.

"Should Ron Dennis be banned? We can't rule in place of the FIA. Let's see what the organization is like in 2008. This is a world that goes around quickly.

"It's December now and the championship starts in mid March. Many things can happen in three months."

Di Montezemolo was quoted by Repubblica as saying that his low point of the season was in July, when McLaren were not punished despite having been found to have Ferrari documents in their possession.

"I can't forget the first verdict by the FIA, the one on July 26, the worst moment of the season for me," he said.

"If Ferrari didn't come up with certain proof we knew we had, it would have ended up with nothing, and McLaren would have got away with it."

When asked about Mercedes' involvement, he added: "I'm shocked about the behaviour of Mercedes, but I don't want to talk about it. I'd rather joke that I'm proud Ferrari's school of thought is so appreciated in England and in Germany."

Reacting to questions about the McLaren guarantees not to develop parts that could have come from Ferrari intellectual property, di Montezemolo said: "Yes, I'm convinced that at least the colours will be different. I don't expect a red McLaren. It's better if we talk about something else."

And di Montezemolo hit out at the fact McLaren won Racing Car of the Year, and Lewis Hamilton International Driver of the Year at the recent Autosport Awards.

"The English never miss a chance to demonstrate their lack of sportsmanship," he said. "The best car is the one that wins, and that's the Ferrari."

[pca]

Juas, ¡qué buena la última frase!

[pca]

They went corrupting their own personnel to make them sign false documentation.

Entre ellos por desgracia Pedro, se criticó mucho a Alonso que no fuera a Paris... pero antes que mentir... y salvarle la cara a estos...

[`]

EL CONSEJERO DE FERRARI SE REFIRIÓ AL SUPUESTO CASO DE ESPIONAJE
Todt: "McLaren es falsa y corrupta"
El francés Jean Todt, consejero delegado del equipo Ferrari, ha declarado que la escudería McLaren es "falsa y corrupta", en relación al supuesto caso de espionaje del equipo de Mercedes a Ferrari. "Es terrible tener relación con alguien que por una parte busca la amistad y por la otra adquiere tus informaciones reservadas", afirmó Todt en declaraciones que publica este jueves el diario deportivo italiano 'Corriere dello Sport'.

"Ahora que nos han pedido disculpas a nosotros y a la Federación Internacional de Automovilismo (FIA), a la Formula Uno y a los aficionados... tienen todavía el coraje de decir que si Dennis (presidente de McLaren) hubiese logrado hablar con nosotros antes, se habría solucionado todo". "Además, McLaren hizo firmar a doscientos de sus empleados un documento que confirmaba que ignoraban los secretos de Ferrari: algo que como se demostró después era totalmente falso", señaló el consejero delegado de Ferrari.

"Por tanto McLaren corrompió a su personal para obtener un documento falso" afirmó Todt, según el diario. Las declaraciones de Todt se produjeron al margen de un encuentro que el presidente de la escudería Ferrari, Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, mantuvo este miércoles con la prensa.