The first thing Jos said after he finished was... Opciones

[Simmaster F]

"How is Pedro?"

It describes the team-spirit in the team, Jos mentioned to be very happy for the team and it was really a team-effort; Tom Walkinshaw said after the race:

"We did decide already long time ago who we want to drive next year. I'm not planning any changes."

So it looks like Jos will partner Pedro next year and I expect them to be more competitive than this year! Both drivers are matched for eachother although Pedro seems to have the upper hand in qualifying and Jos in the races.

Looking forward to Indianapolis, I expect the Arrows cars to be very competitive there!

Robert

[Fanfa]

I don't think Jos has the upper hand in races. Only is more lucky in races. ( See tyre changes during the season, accidents because of other drivers, and the fuel in Montmeló) and you'll see luck is the difference. I know that luck should be searched, but be more lucky than the other driver doesn't mean have better driving hands.


FANFA

[lmaceves]

That shows a good relationship between Jos and Pedro. They have to be competitive, because the main race in teams like Arrows, takes place between teammates.

Jos is a good pilot, but he has just one point better than Pedro; For the time being
he is luckier.

I think also Jos reached already the top of his maturity after many years in f1 racing while Pedro is just begining his f1 career.

Just wait, see and enjoy his fast and smooth driving.

[Mel]

Team spirit is good! But I thought either Pedro or Jos had to leave Arrows to give a seat to a "paying driver" in 2001. Or are these just rumors?
Anyway, I'm not that optimisic when it comes to the competitiveness of Arrows next year. The team is going to have the Peugeot engines (right, the name will be modified.. "AMT"), and these engines have really shown that they aren't the best this year. Moreover there are rumors that Arrows might lose the constuctor of this year's (rather good) car. Another reason to see a "darker" future for Arrows and Pedro...

[Simmaster F]

well, TW admitted for the Dutch TV he already decided no changes were made...
Paydrivers? Arrows have enough money I would say but just not enough/the right people to develop the car throughout the year...

Who could do better than Jos and Pedro? I don't think guys like Wurz and Zonta can do better with the Arrows although they are able to bring much more money to a team than Jos. I know TW don't want to take risks like putting rookies in the car.

The AMT engine won't be this year's engine, it'll be a cooperation between former Peugeot-engineers and AMT-engineers who will develop further, the engine will be smaller and lighter it is rumoured and even more powerful than the this year's Supertec...

About the leaving of Mr.Hamidy later this year: the car for 2001 is almost ready...

I don't agree Jos being luckier than Pedro this year, I would say it's just otherwise...
If you look at the statistics you'll see Jos was in front of Pedro in races most times, Jos is together with Jacques Villeneuve the best starter and has passed most cars in the field with exception of Jacques (no lapping, holding position for 1 lap) so that says something about Jos. Jos has had more mechanical failures than Pedro too...

In the end they are both drivers who deserve to be in the top10 all the way in my opinion.

Robert

[Fanfa]

Perhaps Jos can Overtake more cars at the start because of 2 things more experience in sarts and the more important, he's always behind delarosa, and with the same engine in a straight way with worse cars before him... It's like shumi in Japan '98 he had problems with the engine at the start, he began last and ,yes, count how many cars did he overtake? I did not count it but be sure he overtake more in that start than in the hole year.

Jos better starter? Just a bad qualifier...

FANFA

[Mel]

Good question, who's the better driver. I agree that compared to some others Pedro makes terrible starts somtimes.

But he is luckier? Well, I don't know about that. Right, the accident in Monza. Pedro had all the good luck in the world on his side to escape his car unharmed.
But for the "race-luck"... Just consider this: In Monza, Jos managed to be 4th. The car made it to the finish line. In Austria Pedro was driving in 3rd position right behind the McLarens, and I think we all remember what happend to him...

[Fanfa]

Yes, you're right, but you should consider that the atmosferic situation was just ideal to do a mistake. But think about all problems with tyre changes he had, ( finding Jos there when he was the best driver in the race) and remember when Pedro was racing 3rd and the fucking 2$ piece was broken... Yes, pedro has not race-luck although he was the third FIA driver in 1997 just after Villeneuve and Schumi ( That means something) I don't say Jos is a bad driver, not at all, just that Pedro is Better.

Best Regards,

FANFA

[Hypnos]

I don´t see why all the guys in this forum, are saing "pedro is always in front of jos", i mean, jos had passed pedro three times this year, and, if you count the overtakes both made, the mistakes, the points, well, you should see that jos was better, and, you must see manouvres like the ones he did in the rain (canada), the ones of the italan grand prix, so.. how many drivers cand do things like that??
and, and many ones ar saying taht jos is lukier, well, if you look back you´ll se that jos had more mechanics fails, and bad luck, just see again the grand prix and jos had these problems
1- a port of his fron wing "blowed away"
2- zonta did an spin in his fron and he must
to slow down
3- jean alesi crashed his prost, and many other cars did the same and jos must to "overtake" some fliyng tires, and parts of cars,
4- then, a car (i dont remeber who was) made a mistake, and jos had to brake and pasing him by the grass
5- after all this bud luck, he passed som cars and was in seventh, he made a mistake (his a human, and with his luck taht day) and got out of the course, and the race finished for him

what do you think??

ps. my english is not too good because i am argentinian. (i sepeak spanish)

[Simmaster F]

Hey Hypnos,

thanks for the support, you seem to see things in an objective way and to put up the facts!

I agree that there are a few drivers who do as many passes Jos does, and the way he drives is just spectacular.

To say Pedro is a better driver than Jos doesn't compare to reality, they are matched for eachother; what I like is that they are totally different drivers with a totally different style but in the end they have almost the same pace.

In the end only points will count and remembered...

Robert

[Simmaster F]

Hey Hypnos,

thanks for the support, you seem to see things in an objective way and to put up the facts!

I agree that there are a few drivers who do as many passes Jos does, and the way he drives is just spectacular.

To say Pedro is a better driver than Jos doesn't compare to reality, they are matched for eachother; what I like is that they are totally different drivers with a totally different style but in the end they have almost the same pace.

In the end only points will count and remembered...

Robert

[Kevlar]

Look at the qualifying reports and it's quite clear: Pedro has more trouble-free qualifying sessions. Jos seems to struggle a bit more. A comparison:

Pedro has troubles on three occasions in qualifying:

Great Britain: weather
Monaco: T-car because of a spin
Belgium: traffic

Jos has troubles on 6 occasions in qualifying:

San Marino: right rear wheel
Europe: Few laps because of engine change
Canada: T-car because of a spin
Belgium: Few laps because of electrical problem
Germany: Car won't start - weather
Italy: T-car because of hydraulic and engine problem

I guess it's save to say that Pedro has more luck in qualifying than Jos.

I'll make the same analyses out of the race-reports to see if Jos has more luck than Pedro in the races.

Kevlar

[Fanfa]

Ok Kevlar just go deep under the real facts.


In god we trust, all others please, bring data


FANFA

[Kevlar]

These are not the real data then? My sources are the qualifying reports from Arrows.com. Why don't you prove your point by bringing us data yourself, instead of telling others to do the job for you? Me might actually be getting somewhere.

Greetz, Kevlar

[Kevlar]

Fanfa: I might have misinterpreted your last post. If so, sorry about that ("got" instead of "go" maybe?).

Ok, next comparison: the races

Arrows race reports noted the following problems for both drivers, preventing them to do any better than they did:

Pedro had the following excuses:

Australia: suspension
Brazil: radio
San Marino: gearbox, spin
Great Britain: electronics
Spain: collision
Monaco: collision
Canada: strategy, collision
Austria: gearbox
Hungary: collision
Belgium: stop n go, puncture
Italy: accident

Jos had the following excuses:

Australia: suspension
Brazil: vibration, stop n go
Great Britain: electronics
Spain: gearbox
Europe: collision
France: gearbox
Austria: collision, electronics
Germany: bodywork, traffic, spin
Belgium: collision, flat spot

So, it seems that Pedro has had two relative trouble-free races, Jos had four.

Note: Pedro spun in Germany but was able to continue, Jos spun in Monaco, which ended his race. Rate that the way you like.

My interpretation: Pedro had more luck in qualifying, Jos in the races. Overall they're pretty close.

Greetz, Kevlar

[Fanfa]

Kevlar, I think you misinterpreted my words ( perhaps it was my fault)
What I wanted to say with the sentece about bringing data; is that you brought the data, not like others that only write speculations.

Thanks a lot,


FANFA

[Simmaster F]

About Jos in Monaco: post-race inspections proved that a rear-suspension failure was the cause of Jos' spin in Monaco (source Arrows.com)like his crash in the Nurburgring race, he suffered damage after Irvine hit him from behind....

Let's hope both Pedro and Jos will finish the USGP, I'm sure they will score points then...

Robert

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